and me Evan.
So, what is Dare To Scale. Over the years that we've been coaching founders and business owners, much like yourselves, we work through a framework called dare to scale.
Dare to scale, indeed, that framework has helped go to business owners, and that is what this show is all about. So, with only big picture thinking hat.
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Hello guys so wonderful to see you back here. Today, we are in the next instalment of our master spotlight and today we are talking to Jatin Sachdeva. Jatin is the Founder and CEO of Au pure. Jatin so good to have you here on the show. Thank you for taking the time.
It's my pleasure. It's so nice to be here.
Welcome Jatin really good to have you on.
Thank you. Great to be here.
So Jatin we've got each other for a little while. Tell us a little bit about your story, what got you into entrepreneurship in the first place.
Okay, so basically, it's a very interesting journey I started getting interested in doing something of my own immediately after college. That was just interest, although I got busy in studying why masters that got busy corporate life. It took me a full circle about 17-18 years of corporate life then I said, Okay, enough is enough. I need to do something of my own, and I started looking into entrepreneurship. It took another four or five years by the time I could take the step and say okay this is the end of my corporate life, and I'm going to be completely evolved as an entrepreneur, come what may. It happened very interestingly it's something that we created along the way, there are things that opportunities that came to me, I was very lucky for getting different kinds of opportunities. I was very fortunate to get a very interesting experience in corporate life which, which opened my eyes quite a bit, helped me expand my horizons, understanding of how things work in business outside business. And, you know, the kind of various kinds of trainings that I got in corporate and in my business development processes, actually all culminated towards a scenario of building me up towards how I can grow the business. So that's how it came about and if I put a time, you know, towards the last part of my career, I had a situation where I set up a business, and had a team running it while I was in my corporate life, and at some point in time I realised that if I am not in the game if my skin is not 100% in the game. The business is not going to move forward. And that's when I click that, I cannot hope that the business will do while I'm working in my corporate life, and that is when I said okay this is it. I'm moving into entrepreneurship completely. So this happened five and a half years back, six years back now.
That's amazing, absolutely amazing. A lot of entrepreneurs do come from the corporate world. Obviously one of them as well. And there's others who just don't belong there like Warsha but we'll get to that one at another time. Just out of interest when you, you made that decision. What was the one thing that you found you had to unlearn. And then relearn some things else.
Two things actually one is you have to let go that security of a job, especially the paycheck security at the end of the month, because that's dependent on how you perform in business, that's not dependent on the date of the one that's the first thing which I looked into and that took me a while to get over this fact, as to expecting that security because you're actually in a business you create your own security. So that's, which I learned one. The second thing is also there was no limitations as an entrepreneur. We're setting up our own limitations about how we can, what we can do, how well we can do. And when we want to be placing ourselves in the market. More importantly, so that's the two things which I realised, and, and these are very interesting learnings for me. In fact, about a year, year and a half into my role as an entrepreneur, I kept asking myself, do I need to go back to into the job, and for the first few months I still had a doubt, should I go back, and at some point of time and completely flipped, I said, I will never go back to a job. So that's something which I was looking at and, you know, that confidence and that more importantly that comfort, the calmness of being there that you are and entrepreneur period, except it happened about one and a half, two years into the future, not just. And it took a while, but once it's done, tomorrow I know it's, you know, even if you get something and said okay I don't mind I restart something but I will be an entrepreneur all my life.
I mean that's incredible and what you're saying, at least what I'm hearing the unsaid is you're not afraid to start again. And that is such a powerful mindset, I feel, Warsha has that and when I was in the corporate world I didn't fully get that, even though my own parents were entrepreneurs, business owners, that when you're actually walking the walk yourself, it really is quite so powerful and comfort is very different. So with that learning. Tell me a little bit more about Au pure or pure itself, in terms of the niche in the industry and what led you to that.
So when we started, when I took over the business, you know, leaving the corporate life and taking over what we started initially, we wanted to be something which we can plug the gap which can help people and which, which can help the corporates, as well as an industry as well. So when we started we found a gap, that there is a lot of passive smoking happening in this region. And there was no solution to help people, you know, avoid the impact of that whenever they will not do. Or like, they're going out to a bar, they're going to a club. Anyway, they're going out there is no solution, where you can avoid any passive smoking where people are smoking as far as their choice, and it is a sheesha culture region that's fine. So, we wanted to find a solution, and we went out in the market trying to look for something literally did not get anything or anybody was providing it. So we said okay, we had some products, I still have kept my first improvisation of a product, it's a small, you know, four inch by four inch by 12 inch fan system that I created to improve the airflow and from there we started and said okay let's do something, and we'd knock doors for about three months, every night from 10pm to 2am because nightclubs used to work that time to knock the doors and say hey we have something that you want to try what you want to try what you want to try and at the end of what three and a half months we got our first project, and we were super elated, super elated. And then obviously, it was a very simple place, very, you know, starting level bar if you want to call it, and the confidence that we got gave me, you know, so much of happiness and confidence that I could talk, and then we were able to crack the fine dining industry started in hotels and stuff. So that's how our journey started. But we actually found one gap in the market, and we said okay, nobody has it. Can we create something that does more from a people's suffering perspective, not that you know, technically I had already when we didn't have anything to wind up creating as a response.
Wow, I mean, totally inspiring, and especially in the current sort of space that we're living in air quality is incredibly important it is it is, and I'm sure more and more people are taking it seriously, that just something struck me the Au in au-pure. What does that stand for?
So its Au, Au means 'The'. And there is a second meaning to you in chemistry, or means Aurum or gold. So it's viewed as gold.
Fantastic. I remember you telling me that I just wanted the listeners to actually get that. That's pretty amazing. Yeah. So as a courageous leader because you're doing some amazing things in the air quality space. What's the one big thing that you've, you've ended up, disrupting in your industry,
We have created a model of integrating technologies. Right. And in terms of the technologies that we're looking at. There are not many that we would have found which are integrating competing technologies. So, in air quality. A lot of companies are claiming to be a quality provider solution providers. Having said that, it has to be either supplementing technologies or complementing technologies, which have to work. And of course it has to be complementing technologies when we bring in that expertise for a particular project or for a particular requirement or for a particular industry application, where we say, these set of technologies can work and give you the solution that you're looking at, not that you want to pick up one and assume that it will work for the other requirements of yours. You know what technology and. Suffice it for the other requirements. This is the biggest thing we are done we have become an integrator of solutions or integrator of technologies, instead of just being a seller of one technology or two technologies. So this is where we bring in the expertise we being technology neutral in that sense, and also making sure that our customers get what they are expecting as the outcome, not the sort of our sales is not about our product, our sales is about what you're looking as an outcome. That's how we approach our customers.
I'm so glad that we are recording this podcast because Jonathan, we've known each other for a long time now, and it's throughout our various discussions on the business in the mastermind and every single avenue that we continue to talk about work and business. This is the first time that I'm actually completely focusing on that, that message and this is resonating so beautifully with me thank you for sharing this has been fabulous so far. Continuing on with the disruption and you know in the master spotlight it's almost become that that for the framework, if you will. I want to ask you, disruption is a word that is used very often now, and in varied sort of segments but what does disruption, even mean to you.
I never will be disruption, but what I, what I did was take some courageous decisions to go to the market and say I want to do things differently. And what we did was we took in certain technologies which were being used either completely exclusively, or not being used in the air quality space and we brought it to the air quality space. That's two solutions that you know two kinds of solutions we have created in the market, where, when we went to the customers. They said it cannot be possible as a is we have already done it. And here's the proof of it, and we want to try it out. So that was the biggest difference that we created in the market is that we were not limiting ourselves by the guiding structure or the current practices in the market of, okay, ABC technologies may be you know ionisation or UV or any of the oxidation technologies or filtration technologies that we know in the market. So, as for the standard practice in the you know, the engineering circles in the market or the consulting circles. People have generally done a lot of copy paste of solutions. And we said, why we've started questioning a lot of these things as to why this is being done, and more importantly when we said that we said okay, why can't we look at this option, so I did. I was fortunate enough to travel quite a bit into learning these technologies, and I also went a little lateral in taking technology input from other manufacturing sectors as well, and see how I can apply in air quality space, and we came up with solutions which was generally not people didn't think was possible. So we created solutions and this is why we are known as, as integrators of solutions to digital technologies, not just sellers of technologies. That's something we created very differently the market.
Oh, wonderful. so so good, and somewhere over there. You actually hinted, and touched upon. Our next step in that direction towards the 40 framework is discerning you actually talked about taking that decision to be discerning so what, how did you do that, what did you specifically pick to say, this is what we're saying yes to and that is what we're saying no to, and bring in that focus and what you do today
It's a very interesting question to be asking because I was very fortunate to quickly catapult into the premium end of b2b sectors that I was working with, you know, when we started because we found the customers in that level where who value the, you know, importance of providing the safer kind of right indoor environment for their customers, their visitors the occupants, and more importantly who understood what we were trying to do differently from a disruption perspective and differently from a value perspective. So, so that's where we, we have been very, very fortunate to work at a very different segment, you know, as a startup is generally very organic growth to reach the premium segment, we are doing the other way around. We got shot straight into the premium segment, and now we're looking at the next segment to go into. So that's something which we have looked into our approach is always the fact that we look at customers to understand whether they are focusing on providing the right solution for their customers. And we're just helping them achieve that, that's our focus on time.
That's fantastic. Tell us a little bit more about how did you even get to that customer you were talking about how did you even identify who is that customer.
So, initially it was, you know, natural phenomena actually weren't for that matter, but I would say things happen for us, because I think we were doing the right things. Initially we didn't realise that we are being, you know, approached by the right people, because we were doing certain things very differently in the market, we were actually creating the differentiation by being integrators than by just sellers which nobody was there six years back in the market. So it was a very fresh approach and people like the approach we had, it actually was very interesting because my corporate life has been very different from the industry that I'm in, which allowed me to have a look at it from a very different perspective, which, you know, if you're groomed into, you know, a certain type of industry then you may not be able to think outside that and I was a complete outsider to the industry so I would question every damn thing. Right, and I would say, Okay, why are you doing it this way, or why you doing it that way and why can't we do it. A third way, and then they would look up and listen. So that helped me a lot, and those kinds of customers who would look up and listen, are actually the people who have also done something in their sector to be different, and discerning can be found those customers and then we said okay, why are we successful, what kind of customers we're working with and then we found that definition.
Oh, very nice. So what you're really saying Jatin here is you are questioning the status quo. Yes, because you, you haven't actually said these words, and yet, everything that you've said so far is about questioning status quo, why are we doing something like this, why are we not doing something the other way. Why can we not find a third way to do it. So where does that come from.
Recently I've read something about, you know, as entrepreneurs, most of the entrepreneurs are curious bunch of people. Right, so they keep, keep checking out things, and I think this is something which we get rich I can happily say that I always looked at things, to see if I can do, even if it's 1% or 5% or 10% Better, whatever it is. So, generally it's there is a correlation when I look at something and said okay, you know, something in my memory says okay, there was one solution that you were doing, can I apply the solution there. And that has helped a lot in terms of cross connection or connecting the dots, if you want to call it. More importantly, what happened was that since for me it was a completely Greenfield from a learning perspective, I learned everything from a practical perspective so there's a very big difference between when you learn in college or school. And when you do it practically. And since I was good long 15-20 years into corporate and then I started this, I was looking at everything from an implementation a practical perspective. And for me it was like, I don't care what the theory says it has to work. Right. And can I make it work in XYZ format than just following the ABCs of what the industry has taught you. So that's where I kind of naturally occurred that I can question. Obviously there is a lot of times where people said, you know, are you crazy, and I was happy being called that way because customers said no we have always done this way I said yes you're done this way but is it a better way can we do, can we look into it. And this is where we found our customers who are willing to listen. You know, we're happy to work with them and we generally partner with them now.
Most people who have gone and changed the world that we live in have been called crazy at some point or the other. So brilliant thank you for talking about this because there are so many entrepreneurs out there were thinking, Am I the only crazy person who sees this, because I seem to be swimming against the tide. And what you just said has completely validated that being crazy is not all bad, it's actually a great thing to be crazy, which basically means you're seeing something that a lot of others around you are not seeing you're seeing an opportunity you're seeing something that is it non existing for people, and you see something that can turn into. Au - pure, the purest form of gold.
I totally agree to what you're saying. Half the time I was checking myself, am I to praise your word. So it's not easy for me to accept that initially, but I think that also journey has gone through where you know, might as well just accept you're crazy and do things the way you want to do it,
Absolutely got to be quite blunt here the only thing I can see is you with the flux capacitor making that DeLorean get to 88 very, very quickly. It is wonderful to hear this other sideline voices sort of saying we've, we've known each other for quite some time now, and there's elements of your story that I've just never heard before, and I'm totally loving, absolutely nothing. So, everywhere along your your journey, there's been a whole bunch of decisions and sticking with them through. So, in terms of that, what's the best decision you think you've made. Let's start there.
There are a few actually but I let me say, you know I'm trying to see how we can remember those. The couple of decisions which I was ready to stick to was first of all, I had this confidence that this is the industry, which not only from a business perspective is growth is growth for our growth industry for us. More importantly, this is the industry where I want to give back and help people, you know, because one of the biggest biggest thing that we're looking at is the safety of people when their indoor environments, because we are spending 90 95% of our time indoors, and we are not yet ready to accept the fact that we can do something about our environment, not just you know we're only talking about climate, environment, but a lot of it starts inside the house inside the four walls. And if we can take care of that, we will impact everything outside as well. So one of the things that we are looking at, and it has been a recent thing that has come up is based on the parent, you know, out of the pandemic we, everybody has suffered. I don't think there's anybody was untouched by it in this environment and we have seen so many people suffer. Some people have gained out of it, but more importantly everybody overall has suffered, and what can we do for them, that decision of this is where I will spend my time with is to provide better indoor environments safer environments for people. And we will continue to evolve as the company continued to look at a situation where, how can we help people find solutions to be safer in those is something we are committing ourselves more and more. So that was a decision we took, you know, a while back whether this is the industry want to be that decision was taken a while back, but where am I growing into something which I'm, you know, it's not just the air quality anymore we're talking about the overall indoor environment. And we are expanding our solutions to offer this to our customers and to any occupant for that matter. And that's something which we are we are committing ourselves to.
Oh, very nice. So, today, most of our listeners are entrepreneurs, most of our listeners are established entrepreneurs, a lot of our listeners are budding entrepreneurs. What would you say to them in that point where either they feel they're completely gone bonkers they're crazy or people are saying you are swimming against the tide. What are you doing stop for a minute, or even worse, go get a job, which I don't think it's going to happen ever. At the same time, what is it that you would say, from your experience.
First of all, welcome to the crazy Club, which I didn't know I'm a member myself because I realised I found some crazy but thanks to you as well and met a lot of mastermind people so I realised I'm not the only one as well so that was very helpful. So, I can assure that, you know, everywhere you will find some crazy people around the world and we are one of them. So that's the first thing. The second thing we realised is, and this has happened to me personally as well as that, you continue doing the business, and at some point of time you hit upon saying yes this is what I was working it for, there's a lot of times you connect the dots back instead of looking forward and you realise this is what you've been building up to, and a lot of times we are able to make sense only when we connect the dots, not when we try to chart a path up front, and try to walk that, because that is never a straight line. So that's something which I've realised that continue doing what you're doing, if you feel it right, and you will find your path and you're connected.
And you've said something really important there and that's about the path ahead. So where do you see your path ahead.
So now we're looking at what we want to deliver, how it's gonna happen is, is the execution part of it. More importantly, you know, so over the last six years that we've been, we've been in the business. We have identified that we want to find the solution that we want to offer, but gets clarified along the way more important of course we have to take the right decisions take the right steps, but the starting with. What do you want to achieve, is more important than how you want to achieve, and that helps a lot. So, we have identified, of course for our business. What is it that we want to deliver, not from a product perspective but from an outcome perspective as to, this is what we want to offer to our clients and to the end consumer, and how do we reach there is the next step. So, that prioritisation, or who which comes first. It used to be in a job, who was, okay, how do you want to do it and where do you want to reach is in that sequence. Here it is, what, first of all why and then what, and then how comes later. So that's where the sequencing changes happens as an entrepreneur.
Totally love it. So it's the sequencing, and are there any industries that run parallel to yours, that maybe you could look at, is there any other niche that would actually compliment where you are.
So there is a lot of technologies which are working to provide the environment safety environment quality that we're looking at, but very few have actually come up and said okay, they can the whole decision of working with competition for that matter. And this is where we have been very bold in telling that our principal partnerships that we have to fight in the markets outside Middle East, directly. And I told them, I'll be working with both of you, and both of your products in my, my solutions. And, you know, take it or leave it. This is what I'm gonna do, so we literally went very bold with them and said, you know, you guys can find outside this I will never talk to your customers, I will, they will not talk to the other customers. I said guys, I'm taking both the solutions to my customers. And this is what we did very very differently and we said okay, this is how we're going to take it forward. So this is where we are saying okay, we don't want to limit ourselves in terms of our technology solutions or in terms of our partnerships. We've been very clear about, and that has helped us a lot.
It takes a great deal of courage to say something like that to the big players in the market. Congratulations. So well done for even taking that stand.
Initially we obviously you know, it's hard for them to buy it into buy into this concept but then they also realise that they've seen the value of it as well so yeah, it's good.
Just tell us a little bit about something outside of the business. What do you like to do in your spare time.
Interestingly, one of the things which I like to do is stand behind the bar. I would love to host parties I would love to host guests at my place. And I want to make sure that they enjoy being with us. So that's something one of the things that I like to do. Apart from that, I love to play that smarter but this is my most important thing, anything that I want to do I want to make sure that I can do better.
That's great, because these days, everybody's missing things like movies and all those sort of things or even standing by the bar to kind of a, like the sound of one hand clapping at the moment you know who behind the barn is like all the guests, you know, yeah, but it was so funny. The other night we were out, and then we came across to people I was like Oh, I know you I know you, they said, Was that ever turned out to be a Christmas party we'd had two years back in the last time we actually had one of those amazing. Yeah. So you've talked a little bit about sort of white mags, what you'd like to do in your spare time. When you can travel with the next holiday destination.
Now I want to go back to the jungle with enough of corporate life and you know, big buildings and stuff I want to go back to the jungle, just want to go connect to nature because, you know, one of the things that business has taught me is, at some point in time you need to connect back to your roots. So that's what my holiday is either I go either to the jungle also see the northern lights. So that's what I'd like to go with jungle.
Tell us more paint that picture for our listeners, because believe me there are people out there. They're all wanting that picture to be real. So help us paint that picture for them.
I want to go to Peru, south of America just want to go to those dollar trees the Amazon forest. And, you know, just explore that place there is. There's so many hidden treasures that I've I've been reading about it I believe there's think about it, I've been watching about it. And there are so many hidden treasures there, and I'm sure if I go there I'll probably learn some things and pick something out of it which I can bring back. But, you know, there is a lot that nature can teach us, and, you know earlier before the call we were discussing about things are much more simpler than they look. I guess I will be able to connect to that much more if I go back to that place, and just explore that one, that that channel, because it's not just the trees it's many many millions of other things that you get to see there. You get to meet the people you get to meet the people inside the jungles, you get to see the other creatures. It's just crazy, it's just, you know, It's like a newborn child trying to learn everything is what I want to be there.
And the other side of the spectrum, why Northern Lights?
That always gives you the feeling of starting something new. So, that's something which is quite inspiring as well. And there are phenomena's in the world which we have not explored in fact I always keep collecting the bucket list of the phenomenon that I want to always see right so. Yeah, so, so nature has so much to offer,
Oh wonderful. How nice and it's absolutely brilliant, when you do go looking for those northern lights. Why would you go,
Norway most likely, To Do list as well and maybe Iceland.
As you know, we're very, very fond of Alaska and Fairbanks, that is a wonderful place I loved it when I went there as well as good
Yes it, it's quite interesting, this time of the year is where the season just passed but instead of this time of the year is very powerful. And just with the groups we're connected with it's like, Well, why is this happening now when we're not there, seriously. We'd love to be there for this.
Evan talking about Alaska, And earlier Jordan you were talking about going to Peru going to the jungles learning from nature, learning from people, something that we learned so much from the people in Alaska. And that ties in so beautifully with the theme of this master spotlight from the theme of what we do on a day to scale, it's that courage in people is their resilience is the resourcefulness to survive, harsh environments, in many ways and entrepreneurs environment is fairly harsh and people in Alaska, despite all the struggles despite all the harsh reality of living in the wilderness as it is, what do you really learn from them is the warmth that they still hold the love and acceptance, and the warmth that they hold because it is that humbling aspect of nature that probably, it's just ingrained in them. So, I see where you're coming from when you say you want to go to Peru and just see what happens over there it's a world that is unknown to us.
True, true, true. Yeah, and that is the beauty of art in meeting those people is always, they don't have any, you know, preconceived notions about you they will just open their arms and welcome you. So, which is what, what I look forward to all the time, you know, it's just, it's just simple, honest, and no masks on. So, you know, that's what it is. Love it. And I just extend this part is that we do a lot of that in the corporate life, which it takes a while to peel off those layers, and just be yourself as an entrepreneur as well. So if I look back and connect the dots again it's the same thing you know I would love to go back to nature with nature, it's all clean. And as an entrepreneur you actually more and more getting pure about yourself.
Brilliant. And on that note, let's continue talking about the courage, the daring in us. We would like to hear, as do our listeners, your I dare to statement.
It was and I was not very typical in that sense I think most of us when you're, when we're growing up is all of us have this, you know, crazy wild dreams as children. And when you say okay I want to do this I want to do that generally we are told Okay, shut up and just focus on your studies and go get a job be secure take care of your family and that's about it. So I've done that. I've been there I've done that. And then I said, To hell with it, I will go back to my dreams. So it took me a longer time than I what I wanted it to be, but here I am nonetheless. So my dare to is very simple I dare to dream now and go for it. That's when I am period,
I dare to dream. It's so easy to just say it and so completely believable when we are actually looking is at you when you say this, there is such strong belief and conviction in that, that simple as it sounds, and as you very rightly said we were talking about this before we actually started the recording is you find complexity in the simplest of things, and your very simple I dare to statement says it all.
True.Took me a while to get to this, to define this actually so yeah.
Like Warsha regularly says the hardest thing is to acknowledge and actually say it true, because a lot of us have these dreams and recently we keep them hidden, but to have it out there is just absolutely amazing, you know like in the room, I mean, for me it was daring to be authentic, again, is that corporate life where you're worrying about how the pecking order works and stuff like that. Being authentic is actually quite a challenge for me.
Yeah, it's been we've had to unmask ourselves quite a bit after being an undergrad so that's what. Yeah.
So what's next for Jatin?
From a business perspective, we are looking at, you know, bringing in solutions which are easy and acceptable in the market for helping a lot more people than we have done so far. More importantly, we want to add value to people's life. So that's something we're focusing on, it's just not just a technology that we're looking at, we're looking at solutions more importantly is that something we're focusing. Of course we are providing about we're talking about indoor environment. How well can we improve our solutions in the long run, is what you're looking at. More importantly, that's one. Second, as a person. There are things that I've already mentioned, I want to be just myself, and make sure that everybody around me is always happy, and more importantly, if I have made somebody happy for the day. I think I've added value in his or her life. So that's what I want to just focus on, in addition to just doing my part of giving back and stuff but more importantly, if people around me, and if I'm around myself more importantly, I want to just be happy with myself that I look back at the day and say okay I've done something for today. For myself and for people around me, and for the business and for my customers so it's just been myself that's it.
Fantastic. Oh what a sharing, I think that is, that totally is applause where they thank you for that. That is superb. Jatin, It doesn't matter where on when we all are able to jump in a plane, where, and as I'm sure our listeners are we're looking forward to bumping into you, either in Peru, or Norway, and share that Aurora, or the jungle experience with you. In the meantime, while we're still on the ground. I know there are people who will want to get in touch with you just to say hello, which is the best way to get in touch with you, Jatin.
Two places, either you can go to our website and connect to that, or more importantly LinkedIn. So our website is www.au-pure.com And my LinkedIn is just look for Jatin Sachdeva and you will get it.
Brilliant. We will be posting the website link, and the links to Jatin's LinkedIn profile on the show notes so watch out for that. Evan, over to you,
Jatin, It has been an absolute pleasure, just delightful conversation with you, obviously, wish you all the very very best and like we sort of say, well, will this help me travel and yeah we'll see, we'll see on the other side of the beaches of the world.
Yeah, I love that statement when you mentioned it last time as well with this as we travel to actually start thinking about it last few months now. So this is a very helpful statement and I did get my answers to that and so thanks a lot for that as well and you know, Thanks a lot for asking me questions which I could answer myself, which I've never asked myself, in many cases, so it did help
That it did, because I know there are these are some of the questions that most people don't ask themselves, and that's why this conversation is not just enlightening for us, it is enlightening for us even when we are asking these questions and every time we ask this question to a new guest that the responses that come out are such those onion layers as I said keep saying they keep peeling and there's, there's a fresher perspective that always comes to light.
True, true. Thanks for that.
Thank you so much again for appearing on the show being our guest of the Masters spotlight.
Warsha 34: 33
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