Welcome to the Dare to Scale Show with me Warsha.
And me Evan.
So, what is Dare to Scale, over the years that we've been coaching founders and business owners, much like yourselves. We've worked through a framework called Dare to Scale.
Dare to Scale indeed. That framework has helped loads of business owners. That is what this show is all about. So, put on your big picture thinking hat.
Oh and your headphones, and come join us and enjoy the ride.
Hello and welcome to the Master Spotlight series where we're putting the spotlight on these amazing entrepreneurs who sit with us every single month at the masters table. These are some immensely successful entrepreneurs immensely successful leaders in their own right and the spotlight is going to be on them over the next few months and today launching this series for us is the Dhiren Bhatia. Dhiren is the Founder and CEO of Cloudscape Technologies which we will ask Dhiren to explain a little bit in detail what that company does and also is an experienced podcaster himself and he runs a podcast called The Elevated Entrepreneur, Dhiren welcome to this show.
Warsha and Evan thank you so much for having me on the series as the first speaker thank you it's an honor to be here.
Dhiren welcome, so your story is very interesting and we obviously know a little bit about it, tell us a little bit about that and why entrepreneurship and how long have you been doing this a little bit about your story as well.
Great question thank you for letting me introduce myself well my story with entrepreneurship starts when I was 13 I think, my family and my mom specially was and still is a person that loves to try new things and challenges status quo so when I was young maybe in seventh or eighth grade my mom decided to quit her full time job and start her retail business and coming from a family of entrepreneurs she knew exactly what she wanted and how she was going to do it so I've grown up watching her do this and also push her own boundaries my story began when I moved to Canada in the late 2000s I moved there to go to University and I then started my career in IT I worked for two of the largest financial organizations and made sure that they were doing the right things and making sure they were spending money in the right places and my last position there sorry was the IT Director for the capital markets side of things, at the same time my wife and I got married and my wife Shweta she moved to Toronto and we had this bright idea of starting our own retail business which was an extension of my mom's brand here in the UAE and so there began the journey of learning and evolving and also figuring out what entrepreneurship actually means because like I said I seen my mom do it but I never really knew how hard it was and how challenging it can be when you're learning new things we did that for many years and then we sold that business in 2014 and we decided to move back home to Dubai to spend some time with our family and that's how I started Cloudscape I will discuss in detail as we go through this podcast so I hope that's, that's a good introduction and help sets the stage for the story.
Totally what was one thing that was the hardest thing when you started that journey that you noticed that your mom was doing you had to learn yourself what was the biggest sort of gap there.
It's a great question, so I think the first one is figuring out what is that I think the biggest one also over time has become what is the passion and why we do what we do and it's driving that force for many years I ran the retail business thinking that was what I was destined to do turns out that maybe that was not where my heart was and that was not what my life's purpose was so I think learning and figuring that has been something that I've really enjoyed over the last few years.
Absolutely wonderful and so you've been doing this for some time and now you're doing Cloudscape, what are the biggest differences between working in Canada and working in Dubai?
You know Canada always has a soft place in my heart I am who I am because of my time there I say that very heartily because I wouldn't have been or I wouldn't have become the person I become if I hadn't spent my time that I think living alone from family growing up figuring out what responsibility looks like has really made me as a person and I thank my parents for giving me that opportunity because I know they put a lot of effort into making sure that actually happened so growing up in Canada I learned so I understood what it means to be responsible and also be committed to, to doing things that you say you're going to be doing and as I said earlier I started my career with two of the largest financial institutions and I grew into becoming a very senior person in that organization the other thing that I've come to learn of working in Canada is the culture it's a very straightforward culture people say what they mean and there's no pretense, no hidden agendas. And I've come to really appreciate that style of working in that culture. And when I moved here, I began to figure out how I could find like-minded individuals and like-minded brands to work with. I want to be able to communicate to them clearly. And also have them communicate with us clearly, and which is why we say at Cloudscape, we want to be trusted partners for our clients. And that begins with trust, and clarity and transparency. So, I think those are, for me some of the key things that we look for as we get better at Cloudscape.
Okay, in which case, I will introduce the theme of today's podcast, about the disrupt, discern and decide. So, starting with the disruption in your industry, you run two very specific brands, which is Cloudscape Technologies, and you run a great podcast. So, one, tell us what does disruption mean to you? And how did you, as a leader in your industry, bring about that disruption? And tell us a little bit about how the podcast fits into that whole decision to bring something different to the world in your own words?
Okay, so let's start with disruption. Thank you Warsha for that question. I think, disruption as you have said, already, disruption is a very, very key motivating factor in helping entrepreneurs do better. And disruption in my industry is, is quite prevalent. We know cloudscape is an IT business. We work with retail and F & B brands and help them get started with point of sale and inventory management system. So we are, in typical parlance, an ERP implementation business. And for many, many years, I've seen the ERP implementation business carry on as it has been for the last 15 20 years. And I wanted to come into this industry and make sure that we do a few things and we do it in our way. Number one is have a very narrow and tight scope of work. Something that I've seen happen with other ERP implementation businesses, their progress will continue for maybe six months to a year. And we are quite the opposite. We want to get in and get out in four weeks or less. And I think that's how we disrupted this industry, in our first ways to have a very tight and narrow scope of work and get in and get out so that the client is happy, we're happy and we're able to deliver our level of service that we want to, the other way we've disrupted in this business is also having productized versions of our offering. A lot of people that I look up to and businesses that I've seen over the past, who I've come to learn a lot from, have also figured out how to prioritize your business. The good news is, we are probably the first in our own right to do this in this business, and incredibly proud of how that journey has turned out. And Warsha as you know, you and I have had many conversations over the last few years, as you being my coach, and you've heard me and see this journey happened in front of eyes. And again, I thank you for that time, and all your advice. The third way that we've disrupted this industry is also become thought leaders in our own way and help share that knowledge rather than hold it onto ourselves. And a good example of that is the Elevated Entrepreneur podcast. And a quick story about how this podcast came to be. And why it can be is as a person, I've come to know that the more I share, the more I learn. And these days sharing knowledge no matter how important it is, or how critical it is to my business's success is best put out into the world. And I chose to do that through the Elevated Entrepreneur podcast. So, the Elevated Entrepreneur podcast is a podcast that is designed for entrepreneurs and brands looking to get better in how they do business. And we share knowledge, we share the things that I've come to learn, and also interviewing other business owners and sharing how they've done, what they've done and how they become so successful. So, the Elevated Entrepreneur, also, the podcast is also a platform for entrepreneurs to learn from each other. And I think that gives me most joy. And that's something that we've taken even a step further in terms of disruption is, is content creation. I'll tell you more about it as we go through this discussion.
Oh, absolutely brilliant. And so right Dhiren is that the more you share, the more you learn. And that's one of the reasons why we even started this specific series, because there is so much experience out there from people like you that needs to actually come out to the world because there are so many, there are equal number of entrepreneurs out there, wanting this experience this knowledge that is shared by people who have who are a few steps ahead of them. So, this is so true. Today, that's what it is all about. When you say content creation, or bringing podcasts like this, it really is to bring out great stories like you. So, going back to the second point in today's theme, the first point is disruption. The second is discerning and the third is decisive. So, I'm going to combine discerning and decisive together. Because what do I mean by discerning, discerning to me is knowing what you want, what is right for you, knowing what you say yes to, you knowing what you say no to importantly, and decisive is when you know what it is you take that decision and stand by your decision. These things take a lot of courage or daring. And when you know you've done that, you know, the decision has been right when the results start to show around you. So, tell us a little bit about how these two elements have played a role in Cloudscape, as well as at The Elevated Entrepreneur.
Absolutely, I must say I love the theme about disruptive discern and decide. And I can tell you from experience that these don't come naturally to me. And it's been a concerted effort to learn these skills. And I want to share a little bit about that. So, when we started Cloudscape, a few years ago, as with any typical business, we wanted to help anybody and everybody looking for a technology system. And that included CRM systems, it included inventory management systems, and many other systems. And over the last few years, we've come to realize that we can't be everything to everybody. And that brings me to discerning because you need to know what is good for the business. And you need to discern what is the right way forward. And I made a decision about three years ago, to be very specific in what we offer, and who we offer to. And being able to do that has helped us do all the other things that I mentioned about productizing and launching the podcast and all the content stuff that we're doing, because we were very specific about who we're after. And like you said, rightly, who you're saying yes to and who were saying no to. So, I feel that is a very, very key element in Cloudscape's success, being able to discern what the right who the right customer is, or what is our ideal customer look like. The other side of discern for us at Cloudscape has also been the decision to not over commit in terms of our service offerings and not overcommit in the terms of platforms that we have. There are about 100 different apps and systems that exist today for a retailer and F & B entrepreneur. And we've made a very clear choice to work with a very limited set of them, again, to be able to offer a great experience to our clients. And the other part of discerning is also to make sure that we have the right team on board. And that is something that I've come to learn a lot about in the last few years because this ship Cloudscape is not going to sail very much further out if you don't have the right team member. So, discerning who the right team member is what that experience looks like. And how to get them to a point where they are actually a fully productive member of the team is something that we feel is a very key part of the discerning element. And then bringing that into the Elevated Entrepreneur podcast. So just to give you a little more bird's eye view, the Elevated Entrepreneur actually is a almost like a second brand that exists within Cloudscape. We started with the Elevated Entrepreneur blog a few years ago, it's now evolved into the Elevated Entrepreneur podcast and we also now run a couple other things under the Elevated Entrepreneur series we have the Elevated Entrepreneur bullet, which is a newsletter and finally, the Elevated Entrepreneur masterclasses, which helps business owners learn more through our webinar series. So, the Elevated Entrepreneur series, again, in terms of discerning is who this is for. And this is something that I've struggled with, as in my own ways, with the journey, you know, we all suffer from many different self-limiting beliefs, as you call them, Warsha is someone going to listen to me is this actually worth making, and who am I to talk about all of these things. So being able to discern that, who this is for and what value I'm providing has been something that has been very, very fulfilling. And it has helped us create great content, we now have about 700 people that subscribe to the blog, about 2500 listeners of the podcast in 30 countries. And the Elevated Entrepreneur bullet is also growing very quickly, since the start of this year. So, I feel in terms of discerning to recap my thought, because I feel like I'm all over the place one is figure out who you are for who you're made for and who you're going to service, what you're going to give them. And what does that service look like? And finally, what are you going to do for them in terms of scope and delivery. So, I feel those have been really critical to our success here at Cloudscape. And finally, decision, decision is one of those things that I must admit I'm terrible at. I'm one of those people that agonizes over every decision for many, many weeks at a time. And I will continuously self-doubt my own decisions. And as an entrepreneur, I've come to realize that is one major weakness I would like to work on and continue to improve on and Warsha, your advice and support has been instrumental in first knowing that this is something that I need to work on and second, work every day to make sure that I'm not catching my own self into these traps that I've set for myself. So, decision and being decisive is a very, very key strength. And I'm learning to do that. A couple of examples is over the last year COVID has happened and I'm sure it is put a lot of entrepreneurs including myself into very tight situations in figuring out what do we look like what is the today look like? What is the future look like? And one of the key things that we did was we continued to stay the course it was very easy to flip on our heads and try something else. But to be able to stay true to our mission and my life purpose and also make sure that we continue to do what we've done and built over the last rather than just pivoting and trying something else I feel that's a key element of decision strength the other thing I want to mention under the decision element is the ability to have a plan and stick to that plan no matter how odd that plan may seem at times so we know Warsha and Evan that when tough times happen, it's very easy to doubt everything that we've been talking about again I feel decisiveness here or decision is a key element in this because you know you've chosen a path it's important to stay on that path and help the team stay on that path because they're looking at me for leadership and that's the other thing I want to mention on the decisiveness is to really just believe in yourself believe in the thoughts and the strategies that you've laid out and not alter that because of some external pressure so that's it.
I love your articulation of that decision is somewhat differently something I read fairly recently was just removing alternative avenues or paths so you're sticking with your core customer, you're sticking with what you do best then proceeding with that and your articulation on that is actually wonderful.
Thank you and the other thing I want to mention also is we may not know what is ahead of us we seldom to wish we could tell the future but we can't and something that I'd like to share here from a Cloudscapes perspective is last year when COVID happened we knew that retail and hospitality were at a big risk and still are because of the way that industry has been affected due to multiple lockdowns and so there's not much happening in some countries in their space but those business owners need help in understanding what they can do better and I think that is really Cloudscapes true calling is helping these entrepreneurs not only just implement systems but also see it further out to say that listen it's not about today it's not about tomorrow it's the long term so they got into that business and we want to help them get better through technology and helping them pivot or do better things in their business and I think that is really key for us as we go forward.
Such a brilliant sharing over there Dhiren, in all three elements where you shared with us what disruption meant and what discerning meant and what decisiveness meant and you are not alone when you say sticking to a decision, doesn't come naturally or it takes a little bit of extra work because self-doubt is something that is built into most of us, we're humans that's what we do and very rarely do we 100% say, especially in times of great flux it does become quite challenging to believe enough in ourselves to stick to that decision or stay strong with that decision it takes a great deal of daring takes a great deal of courage so well done on that.
Thank you it's a muscle right, it's a muscle that we learn to flex and it's a muscle that we have to build every day you know the one thing that also occurred to me as we were talking about decision is the ability to say no and my team and I constantly talk about this it is not something that comes to us easy whether it's a client that's pushing us into a corner or if it's something that we were not able to make a decision on I think saying no is very very very important skill that we all must practice and continue to practice and this was a big discussion in our team and the importance of saying no is discussed almost every day we continue to learn.
In terms of your decision and being able to say no, I mean there's another element we generally work with and it begs the question what did you have to unlearn to actually then say no.
I think the biggest thing that we've had to unlearn is our time, is our time no one is going to look after my time more than I am and that starts with protecting the time that we have in a day because there's only eight hours in a day for work and when I started Cloudscape I used to work 16 hours a day may be more figuring that I have a lot of pressure on myself to deliver and I have a lot of things to do but I think I've come to learn I have to protect that time and so being able to block times off in my calendar to do certain things is something that I've had to unlearn and then learn because it's not easy to say you know what I'm going to block off a majority of my calendar because I need to do the things that I need to do and also then service the client at the same time I guess the thought we all come from is the client is always right the customer's always right and we must do as he says and that in that notion we come to over deliver at least open up our time to say yeah we'll do anything you want to so unlearning that has been something that we still do today and then my team we discussed this almost every day.
Dhiren I want to put a different spin on this conversation so keeping with the theme disrupt discern and decide we know and we wanted our listeners to know what it meant for you as a leader to bring these three elements into your team and how you lead a team and how you bring together a team.
Well, the first element I think is knowing that we don't have the answers to everything as leaders and trusting in yourself and trusting in your mind to come up with the right answers at the right time I think a lot of people especially like me that I jokingly say that I have OCD and I have this compulsive behavior to know the future sort of impossible, ever. And so, to be able to let go of control, let go of the ability to plan for every outcome is been something that I've had to get to terms with. And I get to practice that on a day-to-day basis, I catch myself often thinking, I think I should plan for this situation. But the reality is, you're not going to be able to plan for every situation. So that's the first place I've had to start with. And second is self-belief. Warsha use to say, and still says, you know, we're all great leaders, we're all very courageous leaders, courageous, it's just the ability to believe in the mind and believe in the fact that you will survive, the sun will rise the next day, no matter what happens. And taking those two. And building that into the team is something that I've really enjoyed doing, to be able to have a team say no, have a team understand who we are made for, what is it that we're here to do, and take that step forward in making sure they can extend the brand that I've started a few years ago, because I'm not going to be in the driver's seat, you know, forever, and I want them to be able to handle not only just the operation will also extend this into other things and keep the legacy on.
What a brilliant definition and what a brilliant explanation it almost, what you're doing is you're almost defining what servant leadership is, putting your team first, putting the spotlight on them and letting them take this forward very nice.
It's like you said, right, it's a bus that I started to drive. And along the way, I've started to get people on the bus. And at some point, I'm going to get tired of driving the bus someone needs to come on and take the bus forward, because the bus needs to keep moving.
The bus needs to keep moving.
Yeah, totally ready to journey, like is definitely a journey. And there are other avenues that you will also pursue, because life is resplendent with all sorts of opportunities. And so, the team can definitely take that forward, and you can do other things. Tell me something Dhiren whether you sort of defining moments, when you dare to step up. One sort of crossroads you came to, that was really, really important, that would be useful for our listeners to hear.
I tell you a quick story in October 2017, about six months after I had started Cloudscape. I was in this period of internal distress and just utter confusion. Because I my heart was set in Toronto, I wanted to go back to Toronto. As much as Cloudscape had just started a few months ago, it was doing really well. But in my moment or other in my state of flux, I was not able to see how Cloudscape had become successful already. And I remember meeting Warsha and telling Warsha about this fact to say no, I'm not happy here, I want to go back and the deciding moment there was when Warsha said, listen, either you do or you don't you want to go back, go back, you want to stay here and continue this continue it. And I think that's one of those crossroads that I've had to, I've come too many times. And maybe sometimes it's somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm still at those crossroads. But I've come a long way from that discussion in 2017. Because now I've committed to devoting my time to Cloudscape, making it, growing to the level that I've envisioned it to grow. So that, for me was one very important crossroads. And it will be all maybe in our own versions at similar crossroad we're doubting, specially I know a lot of people who leave their jobs to come into business, they miss the stability of the job, they miss the consistent paycheck coming in every two weeks or every month. And when the going gets tough in your business, you miss that. I still meet a lot of people that to say you know what COVID should go back to a job. And I think trusting yourself and trusting in your mind to be able to get the answers at the right time is key. So that for me is one good example of the crossroads I was at. The other thing I want to mention is almost every day where at some crossroads or the other in should we do this? Should we change this? Or should we proceed with this system? Should we offer this? And I think, again, as we've been saying, right? staying true to the path straight true to the vision and the mission that we set out can be challenging. And I think that's an example of crossroads that I'm at almost every day, do I need to change should I change should I not change, but just not rocking the boat is something that I think everybody should learn. Just stay the path, believe in what you started.
And then in terms of a separate sort of defining moment within the business. I'm sure there was a time and I think you alluded to this where you redefined you decided on a different kind of customer? And how was that a real defining moment for you.
So as my coach, Warsha is always been talking about sandboxes, and she talks to me about, she's always asked who do you toil for, and I never really quite got that in the first few years of Cloudscape. And I still don't think that we have a good handle on it. Because this continues to evolve. It's a living and breathing discussion in itself. But I feel we've come a long way from when we started. So, knowing who we toil for knowing who we, we work for is very, very important in our own way. And it doesn't happen overnight it takes time and you don't just you don't create it. It's almost like it's there in front of you, you just have to see it. And I think that's something that we've come to learn in the I've come to learn in the last few years that the industry that we're in the retail and F& B space. There's always been a niche. I just hadn't seen it right, or I hadn't seen it earlier. So, seeing that running after it or staying true to that path. I feel like that is something that we've learned. There's something I have learned, Evan, did I answer your question? I feel like I'm.
Look, I think it does, because many times the difficulty with a decision is knowing who you really want to service. And you know, as time goes on your customers' needs change as well. So, like, as you say, it might have taken time to come up with one definition. But that's also changed over time as well. But now you're working with the people you want to work with. And I think that that is a wonderful place to be.
It is and one of the lessons that I've had along that along those discussions with Warsha and other peers at the board, is that the niche doesn't have to be created, it already exists, you just have to find it, and you just have to see it. I think a lot of people, including myself, believe that we have to create our own niche. I don't think that's true, I think the niche finds you and you don't have to create it necessarily, if that makes sense.
What's the next disruptive thing you think might be out there for you?
Over the last few months, and maybe slightly over a year, I've come to realize there's a difference between life purpose and company mission. And I know that a brand starts with the Founders vision and mission, but it is not necessarily going to be and remain my calling forever and I've come to discern the difference between the two. And there is something to be said about doing what you love doing and also doing things that you need to do to keep food on the table. And so, for me, I think the next disruption is following that life purpose. I know I've come to realize that my life's purpose is helping entrepreneurs elevate themselves into better life. And Cloudscape is a version of that. But for me, I believe the next thing for me to focus on is how I can build something that is even more closer to my heart than Cloudscape. Or rather, what is even more closer to my life's purpose, which is helping entrepreneurs do better. And so, there is something some big things happening under the Elevated Entrepreneur series. And we hope that we can create a community and foster a group of like-minded people who can grow together under that umbrella. And that I feel is my next disruption or my area of disruption.
Fantastic, love it. And all the very best with that. And you know, looking forward to what's coming up.
So just as Evan asked you about disruption and what's next, Dhiren we also know there is another element that has been working in the background for a while now. And that is that's a project that's very dear to you. So, tell us about that. You know exactly what I mean.
I am and I am smiling ear to ear because as you rightly said, it's a project that's near and dear. And it also affects longevity at Cloudscape. And I want to set the stage a little bit if I tell you what that project is, firstly, the business that we're in is a highly competitive business, I'm sure most other businesses are also similarly competitive. And it comes down to a price game, which I call a zero-sum game. So, if I'm offering something for 500, someone's going to do it for 100. And further down, we're going to work our way down to zero, which means no one wins. And for that reason, as part of Cloudscapes future, I'm betting and foretelling that the future is content creation. And for that reason, we want to work on something that I call Cloudscape University and Cloudscape University is the creation of a platform where we will help entrepreneurs learn and implement system themselves, which helps us get to a much higher place, it helps us live to that vision and purpose that I outlined earlier. And it also helps us get away from the price game. And we are creating, in our own way, something new, something revolutionary it doesn't exist today. And to be able to offer that to our clients, allows me to see them do the things that we want them to see and help them grow their business and Cloudscape University is currently in it's in a very nascent position. It's in version one, we are working on it as we speak. And I feel we want to disrupt this, again, by allowing the entrepreneur to do it themselves, rather than pay someone like us, which I don't think is the long-term future.
Talk about disruption that is absolutely brilliant. You know how a TV series sometimes have the laugh tracks and the applause tracks. I wish we had an applause track over there because that is absolutely brilliant. Where you are going with this the vision that you have is so far ahead that you are disrupting starting today to change tomorrow, what tomorrow looks like not just for Cloudscape for your industry as a whole. So proud of you so brilliantly done.
Totally love it.
Thank you, one step at a time.
One step at a time. Indeed, as long as you know what the next five steps are, 100 steps will be behind you within no time.
Yeah, and I think in some ways, the other Dhiren that we're talking about, would have tried to see the next five after the first five and then they'll just be paralyzed in not taking any decision because the 10 steps together look so big and massive that knowing the next five and not the next 10 or believing that the next five will appear magically after the first five, I think is a really interesting self-realization.
That goes into the unlearning that Evan was asking about earlier. That's brilliant. Dhiren it's been such a pleasure listening to your success stories, your specific journey and how you have taken hold and taken matters into your own hand and dared to step forward. Dare to step forward as an entrepreneur as a leader. And, you know, like we say at Dare to Scale, we all have I Dare to statement hidden within us. We usually show us with our actions, and the result that it brings to people around us. We rarely actually articulated we rarely say it out loud. There is power in saying some words out loud. There is power in saying some words out loud, and we would love to hear what your I Dare to statement is.
Is it okay if I have more than one?
It is perfectly okay to have more than one.
I'll share the one that I feel is most applicable, and thank you Warsha for, for even making us think of these, like you said, it's one thing to think about it is one thing to acknowledge it and it's one thing to say and I think all three have to happen so for me, my I Dare to Statement is to live the life I have envisioned for many many years is to live the life in the way I want to live it. And for me that looks like life of travel, a life of time spent with my wife Shweta, so that we can spend our time in Toronto spend our time here and get the best of both worlds and I Dare to make that happen and it's just about believing in myself that I can do this and I will, and that's my I Dare to statement.
Fabulous absolutely fabulous and thank you for saying that. Because Dhiren, many of us, because we usually so busy with the grind, then we forget that success is today's success is right now. I loved your I Dare to statement that made me think that most of us put our I Dare to statement in the future, your I Dare to statement is very much in the present because you're already living that life.
And I love the way you articulated it.
And that becomes a totally discerning decision about quality of life I'd totally love it as well. I mean, interestingly one of the things I had to unlearn in terms of that was to unlearn living my life according to somebody else's wishes like my parents for example, you know what they wished for me, and it does take time and then Warsha and I are living our lives in a very similar way so totally love actually love your Dare to statement.
Thank you. I learned this from you, when you mentioned something at one of our Dare to Scale meetings, he said it's the question that you asked yourself before you undertake any new step, does it help me travel. If it does, we do it, so you know, it's one of those things our Dare to statements can also be the questions we ask ourselves, and stay on that path. So, I feel I've taken that for you. So, thank you for sharing that.
I actually learned that from Warsha and that if you will, is one of our one phrase strategies for our personal life, and there was a breakthrough for me definitely because Warsha is like this kind of spend time in Alaska, which we've done a couple of times and it wasn't quite gelling for me, but when I learned that I suddenly was like, of course, will this help me travel.
Evan, any other questions for Dhiren?
No. I think we've covered them all and I absolutely loved today's discussion, totally loved it. Thank you Dhiren thank you so much for being on. Very, very generous with your knowledge, very generous with your time. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity and this platform that you've so wonderfully created. I enjoy every minute of it and I enjoy every conversation that we have, because there's always something to learn every single time we speak.
Brilliance everywhere. Thank you very much for appearing on our show today, and launching the Masters Spotlight. Dhiren it has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you both and lots of love.
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